I recently attended The Amazing Meeting in Las Vegas. It is the world’s largest gathering of skeptics, with about 1,007 in attendance this year. It was a wonderful event, and though I was there only for 52 hours, I met many lovely people and had “much excitement”.
Less than lovely was the fact that the majority of the speakers were male, and that two of them said things that were stupid, if not downright offensive. Bill Prady, creator of the Big Bang Theory sitcom, apparently made a joke implying that it was not worth it to try to teach “beautiful women” the difference between astrology and astronomy. Even more upsetting was the fact that Brian Dunning of Skeptoid thought it hilarious to replace the photo of a Russian cosmonaut in his presentation with a more attractive woman because the Russian was too ugly. Right.
After TAM, a few blog posts were made about the incidents, as well as the a dress of the women attendees at TAM. One blogger, Barbara Dreshcer of ICBSEVERYWHERE, commented that one of the female attendees was clearly inappropriately dressed for the event in fishnets, short shorts, and spike heels. This led to a post on Skepchick, where Carrie discussed that post AND the incidents at TAM. Barbara Dreshcer has since apologized for that remark and I believe her sincerity. The comments on the Skepchick page, however, are very interesting.
It appears that many people are of the belief that when presenting yourself, if you include your sexuality in the presentation, you should not be surprised when that is the only aspect that people respond too. Honestly, THAT would surprise me. I often dress in a cleavage displaying manner, for two reasons: 1) I have a great rack and 2) I look like an apple on sticks if I do not define my bustline. I do not mind when men (AND WOMEN!) look at my cleavage; like great art I WANT it to be admired. However, like great art, there is also a look but don’t touch policy.
I sometimes wonder if THAT is not the reason for the hostility from men regarding provacative dress. It seems to anger the penis driven part of the brain that BOOBS ARE DISPLAYED AND IN TOUCHING VICINITY, but they are not allowed to touch them. Like a dirty trick that makes the reptilian brain very mad.
I can not speak for other women, but when I dress in a sexy manner I am fully aware of the effect it has on people. I like it, I am somewhat exhibitionistic, and enjoy showing off my attributes. Why is that a personality flaw? Lord knows many of the male presenters at TAM were swinging their “fame” around for all the ladies to admire, but THAT appears to be completely acceptable!
Are we supposed to hide our sexuality and display it only for those we are going to have sex with? Also, why can’t you look at my boobs AND listen to me talk? I enjoy sending and receiving sexual energy from other people, even those I am not intimate with. If this bothers you, just move along. But don’t dare think that you are smarter than me because cleavage distracts you. Because if you think my tits are big, you should see my brain :)
At what point is my cleavage offensive and distracting????
Picture A – What A Nice Wholesome Skeptic – She Must Be Smart!
Picture B – How did THIS girl get into TAM? Maybe she is lost! I will go tell her that she has pretty eyes!
Picture C – WHORE!!! EVIL SLUT!! TEMPTRESS TRYING TO DISTRACT US FROM THE IMPORTANT WORK OF HUNTING GHOSTS AND PERFORMING MAGIC!!!!!!!! BURN HER!!!!!!!!!!
Just in case you could not tell, my IQ stayed the same the ENTIRE time, no matter how much cleavage was showing. How much did yours change while looking at them?
*142 and 38K, FYI
I’d like to be the first to respond, since I stirred this pot.
“I look like an apple on sticks if I do not define my bustline.”
ROTFLMAO!
I hope you read the comment I posted after you on Skepchick. My apology was indeed sincere and if I ever dare to bring the subject up again, I will be able to communicate more clearly since I have a better understanding of the glasses everyone is reading it through.
I think it is great this discussion is coming out. We need more discussion on things other than bigfoot and watching magic.
I thought your IQ increased through out the photos.. I guess I was wrong. from my interactions with you at the skepticamp table it became quickly clear you are an intelligent, funny, sexual women! Please bring more friends next year.
Standards have a range and everyone decides what they are comfortable with these standards. It would be nice if more people respected each others standards and didn’t project their standards onto other people. This is a great example of why critical thinking is so important in everyday life. Of course people will have quick judgments but it is a matter of reflecting and being critical of them to make your final conclusion.
This conversation has gone round and round on Skepchick and other sites and I think it’s a really interesting one. Here’s the conclusion I’ve come to:
Maybe people shouldn’t judge others based on first impressions. However, the fact is, they do. We have socially defined norms that exist in various settings. As we culturally become more casual (women wearing pants is no longer a scandal), the socially defined norms will change.
However, like it or not, they exist.
Now, on the other side, you can wear whatever you want, But the fact is, no matter whether you’re dressed in a bikini or a burqua, people are going to get an impression of you based on your attire. That’s the fact of the matter. That impression may be positive or negative, based on the individual’s social and cultural viewpoint. For example, ‘she’s wearing a burqua so she must be Muslim, oppressed and stupid because she lets a male-dominated religion take over her life and her sexuality.’
The point is, you have to be a) aware of the image you present b) be comfortable with it and c) be aware that it may be misrepresented by someone who has a different viewpoint or perspective. And hopefully, at a place like TAM, you can have a reasonable conversation about it and both people can come out of it more educated and reasonable.
Well said Masala Skeptic. I would like to add that looks are a form of communication as we are all saying here. With communication there is another half and that is the listening/interpreting side. As I strive to be aware of my presentation I also strive to be aware of my listening and interpretation side of communication. One area I think a lot people could improve on, myself included. Our presentation side seems to be very egocentric and we forget about listening.
As you stated it seems to be a snap judgment/emotional reaction. The emotional reactions are natural and we shouldn’t stop them but we should be critical of them. Snap judgments are a claim with very poor evidence.
“Hostility from men regarding provocative dress”? Isn’t the recrimination here largely taking the form of strained interactions between various women correspondents of yours? The first “inappropriate dress” stone was thrown by whom, again? Carrie and Barbara are presumably women’s names, and “SkepChic” strikes me as having a certain gender represented well among its membership…. The male examples you provide include one of the creators of The Big Bang Theory — the shallowness and horribly intrusive laugh track of which should clue us all in to the kind of humor on offer from that particular talking head. (The same guys produced Two and a Half Men. Bleck.)
But anyway: Anger over being able to look but not touch? You suggested that. Not to speak for other men, but that isn’t really ringing any bells for me. Neither I, your oh-so-well-adjusted comment filler outer, nor any of my less well-adjusted male acquaintances strike me as feeling this posited anger in a way I recognize. There are certainly some inappropriate and even asinine men in my circle of acquaintances, but they don’t seem to feel that specific way. The slower ones are hapless with women. The angrier ones, mostly, resent feeling inferior to everyone, women included– so they’re angry about that. They’re just sad and small.
But it’s not seeing your cleavage.
Speaking of which: With respect to your pictures: given that all of them are pictures of your chest, I’m not sure what “distracting” would look like, exactly. There’s nothing else to look at. It’s a little like this post, which describes your fabulous rack at length but doesn’t directly describe the content or even the tone of the skeptics’ meeting. I don’t have the context — for the meeting or the little sweet freckle in that third image.
Very interesting post. Part of what Masala Skeptic said is true people are more or less trained to evaluate what they see or hear and categorize it as one thing or another. I propose its a hangover from LONG ago possibly reptilian brain work but most animals look at the world through evaluating eyes. Is this going to eat me, yes no. Can I eat that, yes no. can I F+@& that yes no. So yes if you dont know a person and you just met them and they have not had an opportunity to speak all you have is what you see. If that is “an amazing rack” well that certainly makes for a lasting impression and falls directly in to the can I F+@% that category. Next I would say that men don’t get angry so much about the look but don’t touch policy. That is sort of unusual in my experience. They typical policy is DO NOT even think of looking. I will slap your face off your head if I catch your eyes below my nose. Women don’t want to be “desired” only for their physical attributes. Its my impression that when women dress provocatively they are not dressing to attract men so much as to compete with other women. Much like a muscle flexing or biggest dick/fastest car thing with guys. Fastest car doesn’t necessarily do it for women but guys think a fast/Muscle car is a chick magnet. I don’t think so much. Its usually the opposite… what ‘short’ coming he making up for with that car sort of thinking.
All that to say this I think you are pretty unique in your understanding of the reaction you are going to get and your ability to deal with guys who trip over themselves and land face first in your cleavage. Most woman are not so aware or so… ummm… generous.
this little bit of ranting is just my opinion no scientific any thing about it.
oh I almost forgot.. I dropped about 15 IQ points by picture three I mean DDD
I just re-read the post and noticed a tiny little factoid that I missed the first time around. OH K?
Just stumbled upon your blog but am enjoying the posts and your writing. Course the irony isn’t lost on me that I’m initially saying so via a comment to a post re: boobs!
But I’d like to back up and start from it’s begining. Thanks for taking the time to write, am enjoying.
Notes from behind the balcony
Some of us, apparently, are easily distracted:
I often dress in a cleavage displaying manner, for two reasons: 1) I have a great rack and 2) I look like an apple on sticks if I do not define my bustline. I do not mind when men (AND WOMEN!) look at my …
Notes from behind the balcony
Some of us, apparently, are easily distracted:
I often dress in a cleavage displaying manner, for two reasons: 1) I have a great rack and 2) I look like an apple on sticks if I do not define my bustline. I do not mind when men (AND WOMEN!) look at my …
Can I just jump on this bandwagon you’ve got going here? Because this was the most well-thought out piece on boobies and their irrelevancy to our brains I may have ever read.
I am SHORT. And I have huge boobs. They do not make clothes that fit me or are flattering for me that DON’T show off my boobs. Just doesn’t happen. And however “stupid” they might make me look, damnit, I can have my boobies AND read Shakespeare and talk about quantum mechanics too.
The body is just a cutely decorated wrapper, hiding inside of it something infinitely more interesting (and tasty!). I’m sad to hear about Bill Prady, I rather liked him until I heard that remark!
“WHORE!!! EVIL SLUT!! TEMPTRESS TRYING TO DISTRACT US FROM THE IMPORTANT WORK OF HUNTING GHOSTS AND PERFORMING MAGIC!!!!!!!! BURN HER!!!!!!!!!!”
Yay! Also your high professed IQ score in combination with your claims of a large bosom make me allege deep if momentary interest in you. I mean in your essay where you say things. Because I read your essay and paid attention to it, not just your cleavage!